spread out in the western united states region. and i asked him, i said, you know, the past couple of years, are you doing better now than you were then? his answer was, no, on any level. if you ask him about what his bottom line is, the company's profits, no they're not better off than they were. if you ask them about the number of employees he has, no, they're not better off. in fact, they've struggled to try to make sure that they're able to keep the employees that they have been able to keep, by -- and this is something else that's thank goes unreported -- something else that goes unreported. that employee who is usually working a 40-hour workweek or maybe a little bit more is now working a 30-hour workweek or a 32-hour workweek. because as an employer he feels a responsibility to try to do everything he can to keep these employees working. to keep their families with a job in the household. but in order to do that, because their business is down, because their sales are down, they've actually now found themselves in situations